December 31st, 2012
The Best 200 Hong Kong Films Ever - Numbers 40-21
Hello, and welcome to Day 7 of the BEST 200 HONG KONG FILMS EVER. This is a list of recommended Hong Kong films as decided upon by actual readers of LoveHKFilm.com, an incredibly old Hong Kong Cinema website that is oddly still online after 10 years.
Personal note: I started this website as an amateur to film writing (which you can tell if you read the earlier reviews) but after 10 years the site still receives attention and some respected people even compliment us from time to time. My whole career as an editor and writer can basically be credited to this website. I’m pretty thankful for that.
Hey, did anyone else out there build a successful career despite not having the experience or proven skills to recommend them?
Edison and me: bros for life.
If you’ve been following this countdown, there have been some surprises and some interesting choices, but from here on out, things get a lot more predictable. The films that you expect to show up do, and the films that you don’t expect to show up don’t. Ergo, INFERNAL AFFAIRS: it’s out there somewhere. Also, RAPED BY AN ANGEL: forget it, it ain’t happening.
If you want proof, you should go back and check out the previous entries in this countdown. Anyway, besides seeing that INFERNAL AFFAIRS does not show up yet, going back allows you the chance to see this thing as it was meant to be seen: in order. Otherwise you’re just flipping to the back of the book and ruining it for yourself — you know, like Billy Crystal does in WHEN HARRY MET SALLY. Yeah, we’re really dating ourselves with that reference.
Previous Updates:
Numbers 200-171
Numbers 170-141
Numbers 140-111
Numbers 110-81
Numbers 80-61
Numbers 60-41
Hit the jump and let’s meet numbers 40-21!
40. FIST OF LEGEND (1994), directed by Gordon Chan - 84.5 points, 1 first place vote - LoveHKFilm Review
It’s the legend of Chen Zhen — except instead of DONNNNIEEE or BRRRRUUUCCCEE it’s JJEEETTTTTTTT as the pupil of Huo Yuanjia who gets all sawed off and looks to tear the Japanese a new one. Andrew Chan gushes, “The fight scenes are pitch perfect and Jet Li is in top form. The final fight scene with Billy Chow remains one of action cinema moments of the century.” Tim Chmielewski chimes in, saying “Even though this movie is a remake of an earlier Bruce Lee movie, it stands on its own as a classic.” It’s also a lot less incendiary than either the Bruce Lee or Donnie Yen iterations, and even features Chen Zhen in a romance with a Japanese girl! Man, that would not fly nowadays. With any luck, this won’t be the only Chen Zhen movie to show up on this list. FIST OF LEGEND ranked #19 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 90s.
39. HAPPY TOGETHER (1997), directed by Wong Kar-Wai - 88.5 points, 1 first place vote - LoveHKFilm Review
Hong Kong Cinema cum slash fiction fans had a field day with HAPPY TOGETHER, because it cast two of Hong Kong’s most drool-worthy leading men as lovers in Buenos Aires who break up, make up, break up again and then get so passive-aggressively vindictive that there’s pretty much no way to go back. But go forward? That’s a direction that’s always available. Leslie Cheung and Tony Leung Chiu-Wai are the bickering lovers, and each turns in a performance so incredibly flawed and pathetic that they become recognizable, frighteningly real figures. Directed by that Wong Kar-Wai guy — maybe you’ve heard of him? Ranked an unlucky #13 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 90s.
38. COME DRINK WITH ME (1966), directed by King Hu - 95 points - LoveHKFilm Review
Hey, it’s the King Hu movie that we’re actually allowed to put on this list! This swordplay classic is arguably the most beloved Shaw Brothers martial arts film ever (Note: we used the word arguably), and is easily the signature work of the studio’s kung-fu princess Cheng Pei-Pei. The action here is grounded but exacting and mesmerizing in its staging. Says Adam DiPiazza, “The action may look primitive today, but COME DRINK WITH ME just may be the most overall well-directed film in the Shaw Bros. catalogue.” Followed by the sequel GOLDEN SWALLOW, but King Hu did not direct and for some reason nobody really talks about it. Hmmm.
37. MR. VAMPIRE (1985), directed by Ricky Lau Koon-Wai - 96.5 points, 1 first place vote - LoveHKFilm Review
If nothing else, MR. VAMPIRE provided the the quintessential role for the late Lam Ching-Ying, he of the wacky eyebrows and venerable screen presence. Lam is the Taoist priest who helps a ragtag bunch (including Chin Siu-Ho, Moon Lee and Ricky Hui) battle tough hopping vampires, and this Sammo Hung-produced horror-comedy is so good that it launched an entire genre of similar and also inferior copycat films. Says Root, “A childhood of impersonating Lam Ching-Ying attempts at ghostly exorcisms may have skewed my view a little, but I find this the most watchable, likable horror-comedy out there with a lovable cast and great fight sequences. And it’s genuinely funny too.” Ranked an incredibly respectable #11 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 80s.
36. INFERNAL AFFAIRS 2 (2003), directed by Andrew Lau and Alan Mak - 100.5 points, 2 first place votes - LoveHKFilm Review
Making a sequel to THE GREATEST FILM EVER sounds like a difficult task, but the INFERNAL AFFAIRS team was up to the task with INFERNAL AFFAIRS II. Instead of a tense crime thriller, Andrew Lau, Alan Mak and Felix Chong give us a meaty epic drama that actually made its universally-praised predecessor better. Heck, some people even think that the sequel is superior to the original — like Valerie Soe, who opines that the film is “ranked higher than its predecessor due to its increased complexity and emotional weight, its operatic scope, and another outstanding performance by Francis Ng.” Followed by INFERNAL AFFAIRS III, but we’ll just whistle innocently and look the other way. Ranked #9 on our list of TOP 50 HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE AUGHTS.
35. AN AUTUMN’S TALE (1987), directed by Mabel Cheung - 102.5 points - LoveHKFilm Review
One of the most finest little movies around, AN AUTUMN’S TALE rules because of Chow Yun-Fat, Cherie Chung, Chow Yun-Fat and Chow Yun-Fat. Oh, and also Chow Yun-Fat. Mark Gor kicks ass and takes names as Samuel Pang, a normal dude living in New York City who so far in life has amounted to a big fat zero. One day his cousin Jenny (Cherie Chung) enters his life and then he decides to change. Aaand…that’s the film. Really. But like with most films, it’s not the story you tell but how you tell it, and director Mabel Cheung and screenwriter Alex Law tell this one exceptionally well. Sensitive, subtle, unforced, understated, natural, sympathetic, endearing, simple and pure. These are the adjectives that best describe what Cheung and Law accomplish here, and if you need an adjective for the sum totality, then how about this one: perfect. AN AUTUMN’S TALE ranked #8 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 80s, which is surprising because this film has no guns, blood or gangsters. But it does have Chow.
34. ELECTION (2005), directed by Johnnie To - 110 points - LoveHKFilm Review
You know, there are some people (like me) who think ELECTION is actually inferior to ELECTION 2. No matter: it soundly walloped ELECTION 2 in our reader vote so we must sing its praises. And there’s much to sing about, from its enthralling examination of the triad underworld to its dry black comedy to its smart, detailed performances. Also, as Lee Rankin will tell you, “ELECTION has one of the best shock endings in not only Hong Kong cinema history, but of any film I have seen, Hong Kong or otherwise.” Said ending involves fishing and a big rock, but you’ll have to see the film to get the rest. Ranked #6 on our list of TOP 50 HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE AUGHTs, meaning there were only five films ranked higher. Subtraction is difficult.
33. RED CLIFF (2008) and RED CLIFF II (2009), directed by John Woo - 110 points, 2 first place votes - LoveHKFilm Review 1, Review 2
John Woo returned to Chinese Cinema in a big way in 2008 with the first of his RED CLIFF films, about the pivotal defeat of magnificent bastard Cao Cao (Zhang Fengyi) by the Wei-Sun coalition led by Sun Quan (Chang Chen) and Liu Bei (Yao Yong). The key characters, however, are Zhou Yun (Tony Leung Chiu-Wai) and Zhuge Liang (Takeshi Kaneshiro), rival strategists who team up while engaging in some of the most artful bromance ever put to film. Despite being a costume epic, RED CLIFF fits neatly with John Woo’s romantic aesthetic — and it should, since many of his famous heroic bloodshed tropes were actually taken from THREE KINGDOMS lore. The RED CLIFF movies are a stirring achievement and a fun way to watch John Woo come full circle. Now if only he would work with Chow Yun-Fat again. Ranked #13 on our list of TOP 50 HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE AUGHTS.
32. FONG SAI YUK (1993), directed by Corey Yuen Kwai - 111 points - LoveHKFilm Review
Valerie Soe calls FONG SAI YUK, “A really fun and frantic kung-fu movie with a smiling Jet Li and his kick-ass mom, awesomely played by Josephine Siao.” Really, FONG SAI YUK has too much of too many good things. This movie has everything: history, gender issues, situation comedy, romance, drama, singing, crying and action. Tons and tons of action. The uneven mishmash of genres can be off-putting but Corey Yuen and company handle everything with such likable, graceful panache that its impossible to not smile as it all unfolds before you. For further proof of FONG SAI YUK’s dominance, one only need look at FONG SAI YUK II, which is pretty good in its own right. But is it as good as FONG SAI YUK? No freaking way. Ranked #12 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 90s.
31. HERO (2002), directed by Zhang Yimou - 118 points, 1 first place vote - LoveHKFilm Review
It’s Jet Li again, but HERO is not a Jet Li movie like FONG SAI YUK. HERO is a movie with Jet Li, and Zhang Yimou uses the martial arts superstar’s iconic presence to add extra layers to this RASHOMON-like art film about the true nature of heroism and how different colors can represent different things (At least, that’s what film school taught us). Some people question if HERO is really a Hong Kong film — after all, it’s directed by China’s most celebrated director plus features suspiciously pro-China themes. Then again, the cast feature HK Cinema mainstays Tony Leung Chiu-Wai, Maggie Cheung and Donnie Yen, plus the Hong Kong Film Awards treats HERO as a Hong Kong film. Whatever, we’ll just say the movie is very, very good and end the discussion there. Ranked #7 on our list of TOP 50 HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE AUGHTS — so it looks like we consider it a Hong Kong movie too.
30. PROJECT A (1983), directed by Jackie Chan - 119 points, 1 first place vote - LoveHKFilm Review
The top ranked Three Brothers film on our TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 80s list, clocking in at #6, which means no more Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao team-ups for the remainder of this countdown. That’s a shame because the Three Brothers made some amazing Hong Kong Cinema and should arguably been given a Top 15 finish for one of their films. But no matter, we’re here to talk about PROJECT A and there’s too much to talk about. Martin says about PROJECT A: “For my money, this is Jackie Chan’s best. A showcase of all Jackie’s finest attributes, excellent and exciting action and genuinely funny comedy, on a massive scale. It doesn’t hurt to have Sammo and Yuen Biao in there too!” Indeed the stunts and action here are spectacular, and Chan’s comedy timing is only enhanced when he has two incredibly good actors and stunt performers as his screen mates. Genres and filmmakers come and go, but seeing a winning, death-defying collaboration like the Three Brothers again? Probably not in our lifetime.
29. GOD OF GAMBLERS (1989), directed by Wong Jing - 122 points, 2 first place votes - LoveHKFilm Review
Let’s look at the story of GOD OF GAMBLERS: It’s about a smarmy gambling expert who wears awesome suits but becomes a fashion-impaired man-child when he gets hit on the head with a rock. However, when he eats chocolate he suddenly regains his amazing shuffling skills but not his fashion sense. Furthermore, he hangs out with a low-level gangster who raids Michael Jackson’s wardrobe and looks like that producer guy in A SIMPLE LIFE. How can this be the recipe for one of the BEST HONG KONG FILMS EVER? Well, it is and that’s because of Chow Yun-Fat, whose ability to do anything in a movie is legendary, and Wong Jing, whose ability to try anything in a movie is legendary. Add both together and you get a movie that’s so off the chain entertaining that you can’t help but like it. And if you don’t then you probably had no childhood. Ranked #7 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 80s, above many films that were a lot less fun.
28. CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON (2000), directed by Ang Lee - 122.5 points, 1 first place vote - LoveHKFilm Review
Adam DiPiazza says, “The way Bruce Lee introduced previous generations to martial arts films, CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON was my generation’s introduction.” That sounds about right, because previously martial arts films were seen as creatively-choreographed chopsocky, and post-CROUCHING TIGER they became artful, elegant epics with punches and kicks that impacted the soul as well as the body. CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON basically changed martial arts films forever. No longer were King Hu movies the outliers in a sea of bloody, hokey bash-em-ups. Now the outliers are movies featuring Jiang Luxia and Philip Ng and directed by Dennis Law, and now every big name director is lining up to try out a fancy-schmancy costume film choreographed by Yuen Woo-Ping or Ching Siu-Tung. Ang Lee’s to blame for all of this and he’s earned our scorn and also our undying admiration. Because hey, CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON is freaking amazing. Appropriately ranked #12 on our list of TOP 50 HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE AUGHTS.
27. FIST OF FURY (1972), directed by Lo Wei - 122.5 points, 3 first place votes - LoveHKFilm Review
Chen Zhen makes his last and most poignant appearance on this list with FIST OF FURY a.k.a. THE CHINESE CONNECTION — and yes, that is a spoiler that you won’t be seeing Andrew Lau’s THE LEGEND OF THE FIST - THE RETURN OF CHEN ZHEN show up. Huo Yuanjia student Chen Zhen gets his most charismatic incarnation thanks to Bruce Lee, whose performance is so powerful and righteous it probably swelled Chinese nationalist pride to its seventies peak. Snowblood says of the film, “Chen Zhen smashing the “No dogs and Chinese allowed” sign is possibly the most powerful moment of any Hong Kong film ever.” Also of note is the film’s dark ending, which feels much more appropriate for the subject matter than the happier endings witnessed in FIST OF LEGEND or LEGEND OF THE FIST. Even though we didn’t hold a reader vote for TOP 100 HONG KONG FILMS OF THE 70s, it’s more than likely that FIST OF FURY would have ended up at #1.
26. A MOMENT OF ROMANCE (1990), directed by Benny Chan - 124 points, 1 first place vote - LoveHKFilm Review
Back in 1990, every guy wanted to be Andy Lau in A MOMENT OF ROMANCE. That is, they wanted to be an awesome triad dude with cool hair, a cool motorcycle and a screw-the-establishment attitude. Simultaneously, every girl wanted to be Wu Chien-Lien. That is, they wanted to reject against the patriarchal order by hooking up with a dreamy rebel with a cool motorcycle and a bad attitude. That’s what MOMENT OF ROMANCE taught us, and even though we all saw how badly it ended for Andy Lau and Wu Chien-Lien, people still wanted to be them. Why didn’t people want to be Chow Yun-Fat and Joey Wong from FRACTURED FOLLIES instead? Sure, the guy wore a pineapple costume but he also sings while running down the street in said costume. And hey, the girl was pretty. Surely the FRACTURED FOLLIES dream was one worth wanting? No matter, everyone chose MOMENT OF ROMANCE. Like San Te, who says “To be honest, before watching A MOMENT OF ROMANCE I thought that all HK movies were about action. I was wrong. Also, I bought a motorcycle after this.” You see? When will these kids learn? Ranked #21 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 90s.
25. THROWDOWN (2004), directed by Johnnie To - 128 points, 1 first place vote - LoveHKFilm Review
Though it was dismissed by some critics for not meeting the expectations of a Johnnie To film (i.e., it wasn’t a genre film so let’s not care), THROWDOWN has slowly but surely gained a loyal following. On our TOP 50 HONG KONG FILMS OF THE AUGHTS reader vote it placed #15, but in the two years since its leapfrogged most of the films ahead of it, including little titles like INFERNAL AFFAIRS II, RUNNING ON KARMA, ELECTION, HERO and CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON. Martin calls the film, “A thrilling departure from Johnnie To’s usual M.O. — an unclassifiable judo comedy/drama type thing. Superbly shot and for all its Milkyway Image quirks, hugely uplifting.” Filipe is stronger in his praise, saying that THROWDOWN is “To at his most personal and offbeat. I know he’d disagree but I take this over anything Akira Kurosawa ever did.” You’re right, Filipe: Johnnie To would disagree. But privately he’d be tickled pink and would probably light up a huge victory cigar later. Johnnie To smokes a lot of those victory cigars.
24. GOD OF COOKERY (1996), directed by Stephen Chow - 133 points, 4 first place votes - LoveHKFilm Review
Perhaps the pinnacle of the Stephen Chow “douchebag who gets his comeuppance” character template, GOD OF COOKERY is one of Chow’s most accessible comedies and easily the greatest advertisement ever for barbecued pork + a fried egg over rice. Karen Mok as Sister Turkey is also key, as she’s one of the few Chow leading ladies to successfully hold her own. About a zillion years ago they kept talking about a Hollywood remake directed by Chow and starring Jim Carrey, but that obviously isn’t happening anymore. Ranked #10 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 90s — a shocking finish since it was the highest ranked Chow movie from a decade that he basically owned, plus it doesn’t augur well for Chow’s results in the rest of this countdown. No matter. Two out of this three movies in the 21st century ensure that Chow will not go quietly.
23. ONCE UPON A TIME IN CHINA 2 (1992), directed by Tsui Hark - 134.5 points - LoveHKFilm Review
Finally, a Jet Li Wong Fei-Hong movie makes this list! Too bad none of the Kwan Tak-Hing films were able to rank, but really, how many of you saw HOW WONG FEI HONG DEFEATED THREE BULLIES WITH A ROD? Probably none, which may be why a Wong Fei-Hong movie starring a guy whose name is synonymous with “aircraft” makes the cut instead. This second film in Tsui Hark’s popular series is super-important anyway, because it features Wong Fei-Hong interacting with Sun Yat-Sen, plus it pits Aircraft Li versus DONNNNIIEEEE in a classic Yuen Woo-Ping choreographed duel. A terrific mix of nationalism, heroism and unbelievably imaginative martial arts. Ranked #8 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 90s.
22. A CHINESE ODYSSEY PART I: CINDERELLA (1995) and A CHINESE ODYSSEY Part II: PANDORA’S BOX (1995), directed by Jeff Lau - 147 points - LoveHKFilm Review 1, Review 2
The CHINESE ODYSSEY movies leapfrog GOD OF COOKERY in this countdown, and they probably should. Stephen Chow turns in possibly his finest acting in this brilliant mo lei tau reworking of the classic JOURNEY TO THE WEST, infused with a healthy dose of postmodern ridiculousness courtesy of director Jeff Lau. Often ignored because of his superficial resemblance to that Wong Jing fellow, Lau is one of Hong Kong’s most unique and creative directors and someone who should receive greater notice even if he did make KUNG FU CYBORG. Action, comedy, romance, an existential examination on the life and emotions of an immortal monkey — A CHINESE ODYSSEY has it all. Ranked #16 on our list of TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE 90s.
21. EXILED (2006), directed by Johnnie To - 155.5 points - LoveHKFilm Review
Also known by its alternative title POSTMODERN MISSION, this Johnnie To joint ranked a shockingly high #5 on our TOP HONG KONG MOVIES OF THE AUGHTS. This film is a supremely entertaining bromance about guys with guns who love one another but won’t touch each other like those guys in HAPPY TOGETHER. Instead, they’ll shoot people together and occasionally shoot at each other — but luckily a door or a guy they love less gets in the way. Sometimes, while hanging out in the middle of nowhere, they’ll run across a convoy of gold that’s being guarded by another guy, and after a shoot out they also fall in love with him. They still won’t touch him, but they’ll gather around a fire and tell stories of other men they love who they’ve shot at or perhaps shot with. This is the story of manlier-than-manly men whose profound love for one another can only be expressed with cold steel and hot lead. This is the story of all men. This is EXILED.
Yeeha, only twenty films left! At this point you might as well start guessing what they are because you’ll probably be right. Numbers 20-11 will be up in a few days. See you in 2013.
December 31st, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Some interesting results this time around
-Seeing An Autumn’s Tale finish outside the top 30 breaks my heart
-Pleasantly surprised to see Throw Down finish so high(maybe a little too high?) Beating out other Johnnie To movies like Election and Running on Karma…who would’ve thought!
-A Moment of Romance came up big time!
-Looks like the 2000’s wont dominate the top 20. I was expecting a couple of the movies here (Exiled, Election, Hero) to finish near the top 10
December 31st, 2012 at 9:44 pm
Wong Fei-Hong already appeared in Drunken master (Iron monkey and Magnificent butcher as well).
The final 20 will be WKW (5), John Woo (4), Tsui Hark (2), Johnnie To (2), Jacky Chan (1+1 codirect), Stephen Chow (2), Ching siu tung, Peter Chan, and Andrew Lau/Alan Mak. It’s very interesting to see which film has has highest voted.
December 31st, 2012 at 10:27 pm
I didn’t consider either IRON MONKEY or MAGNIFICENT BUTCHER as Wong Fei-Hong films because he’s more of a supporting role in both, but I blanked on DRUNKEN MASTER. I’ve edited the blurb slightly to fix that issue.
Your predictions for the rest of the Top 20 are more or less spot-on. Well, except you can add James Yuen Sai-Sang for MY WIFE IS 18, which comes in at #3.
December 31st, 2012 at 11:01 pm
Surprisingly high place for THROW DOWN is nice, but Johnnie To is running out of his guns, with only 2 films left I’m not sure if THE MISSION will make it into Top 10.
It’s good that ASHES OF TIME will be the best HK wuxia on the list and CTHD just in front of HERO sounds about right. CHINESE ODYSSEY and GOD OF COOKERY loss to two CGI-packed Chow flicks is not right though.
ps. that EXILED synopsis is as great as the film itself. Great job Kozo (as usual)!
January 1st, 2013 at 1:11 am
To me the “Best Performances” is the real highlight of this round of ranking.
The “Best movies ever” ranking, on the other hand, is actually quite problematic because it is impossible to reconcile with the decade-specific rankings. As one example, consider:
This ranking includes:
“God of Cookery” (24.) 130 per decade).
In other words, this new ranking introduces confusion without end. Before we had a consistent if incomplete ranking of all movies 1980-2009; now we have two inconsistent rankings of these same movies, which is another way of saying we have no ranking at all
Kozo is a hero of mine and lovehkfilm.com has been among my favorite websites for the past 7 years or so, and the decade-specific rankings were awesome — but this new ranking is really disappointing and makes a mess of all the preceding ones.
Let’s hope that the Top 20 or at least Top 10 will be consistent with the old rankings, otherwise it would really be a mess.
January 1st, 2013 at 1:12 am
(sorry the first posting came out incomplete)
To me the “Best Performances” is the real highlight of this round of ranking.
The “Best movies ever” ranking, on the other hand, is actually quite problematic because it is impossible to reconcile with the decade-specific rankings. As one example, consider:
This ranking includes:
“God of Cookery” (24.) 130 per decade).
In other words, this new ranking introduces confusion without end. Before we had a consistent if incomplete ranking of all movies 1980-2009; now we have two inconsistent rankings of these same movies, which is another way of saying we have no ranking at all
Kozo is a hero of mine and lovehkfilm.com has been among my favorite websites for the past 7 years or so, and the decade-specific rankings were awesome — but this new ranking is really disappointing and makes a mess of all the preceding ones.
Let’s hope that the Top 20 or at least Top 10 will be consistent with the old rankings, otherwise it would really be a mess.
January 1st, 2013 at 1:14 am
(sorry the first posting came out incomplete)
To me the “Best Performances” is the real highlight of this round of ranking.
The “Best movies ever” ranking, on the other hand, is actually quite problematic because it is impossible to reconcile with the decade-specific rankings. As one example, consider the following case. This ranking implies: “God of Cookery” (24.) 130 per decade). In other words, this new ranking introduces confusion without end. Before we had a consistent if incomplete ranking of all movies 1980-2009; now we have two inconsistent rankings of these same movies, which is another way of saying we have no ranking at all
Kozo is a hero of mine and lovehkfilm.com has been among my favorite websites for the past 7 years or so, and the decade-specific rankings were awesome — but this new ranking is really disappointing and makes a mess of all the preceding ones. Let’s hope that the Top 20 or at least Top 10 will be consistent with the old rankings, otherwise it would really be a mess.
January 1st, 2013 at 1:17 am
(sorry for the repeast postings — I had included greater-than and smaller-than signs in the text, which somehow messed everything up; this should work now)
To me the “Best Performances” is the real highlight of this round of ranking.
The “Best movies ever” ranking, on the other hand, is actually quite problematic because it is impossible to reconcile with the decade-specific rankings. As one example, consider the following case.
This ranking implies: “God of Cookery” (24.) below “Once Upon a Time in China 2″ (23.) below “Chinese Odyssey” (22.)
But the “Best movies of the Nineties” placed these same movies as follows: A Chinese Odyssey” (16.) below God of Cookery” (10.) below “Once Upon a Time in China II” (8.)
This new ranking therefore does not preserve the decade-specific ordering of these three movies. The only two consistent interpretation would be to ignore this new ranking, or to argue that it takes precedence over the decade-specific ones — but that is a terrible idea because the sample size of this new ranking (83) is so much lower than those of all the preceding ones (at least 130 per decade).
In other words, this new ranking introduces confusion without end. Before we had a consistent if incomplete ranking of all movies 1980-2009; now we have two inconsistent rankings of these same movies, which is another way of saying we have no ranking at all
January 1st, 2013 at 3:56 am
Well, Viktor, I’ve really tried to reconcile your various posts with eachother, and the conclusion is, I’m a bit confused by what your conclusion, as where on earth does it say that this poll has to be reconciled with the decade lists? Or any other list of ‘best Hong Kong films,’ for that matter? It’s is a readers’ poll, ie a lovefest, people expressing their appreciation of some of the best films ever made. I won’t get upset, therefore, if the rankings can’t be mapped to the decade lists (which I loved.) Rankings are pretty arbitrary things anyway, based on what people have seen and what their personal tastes are. And anyway, is it possible to really ‘rank’ (ghastly word, dreadful idea) Come Drink with Me against, say, The Mission?
Anyway, I love this poll and am looking forward to the final countdown.
Oh, and Happy New Year, everyone!
January 1st, 2013 at 9:58 am
Happy New Year All!!! And I enjoy the discrepancies between the lists. A few of the original rankings I was not pleased by, so I like the changes. I would rank CTHD higher, but then again that movie doesn’t really capture for me the spirit of HK cinema; it’s just a good movie; in a way I’m glad it hasn’t muscled out a top spot.
January 1st, 2013 at 1:04 pm
GOD OF COOKERY was the first Chow Sing Chi movie I ever saw. It’s still probably my overall favourite.
And it’s nice to see a lot of love for RED CLIFF. It’s a movie that would be easy to dismiss as just another one of ‘those’, but it’s just so damn big, enthralling and entertaining. I’ve lost probably half a dozen whole afternoons watching that movie in total, and it never gets boring to me.
And I think any mention of A MOMENT OF ROMANCE’s greatness must include some reference to Beyond’s contributions to the soundtrack. In terms of screen time it’s not a lot but the impact those songs have over certain scenes is immense.
January 1st, 2013 at 2:28 pm
Hi Viktor,
Thanks for the comments, I really appreciate them. You’re correct that the results of this list contradict previous ones, but honestly I expected that to happen. Opinions are fickle and people change them all the time, and it’s only through years and continued relevance that films end up placing in the same order every time.
A lot of current Hong Kong Cinema doesn’t have time longevity on its side, and we’re also hurt by our smaller sample size (130 people is not a very large size). Also, to clear something up, 83 people voted on the BEST PERFORMANCES vote but 166 voted on BEST HONG KONG FILMS EVER. So this is the greatest amount of people to vote for films on this site.
That said, our AUGHTS poll took place at the end of 2009, which meant that BODYGUARDS AND ASSASSINS and ACCIDENT were left off the list because few people had seen them when we ran the poll. There’s also THE WAY WE ARE, which possibly jumped in reverence as Ann Hui’s rep got an extra boost in the last four years. Also, the AUGHTS vote had a random bunch of Charlene Choi fans participate, which resulted in a few of her films (FUNERAL MARCH, MY WIFE IS 18) gaining more points than they might have. But strangely, TWINS EFFECT made our BEST EVER list but did not rank on the AUGHTS.
And don’t get me started on FUTURE COPS, which ranked #154 on the BEST FILMS EVER list. Obviously I don’t think that film deserves to be on a best ever list of anything, except perhaps BEST FILMS TO CONVINCE PEOPLE TO DISREGARD HONG KONG CINEMA, but it got voted in (two people making it their first selection was a big deal), and I have no problem including it. Different polling times means different people participate — sometimes the results skew one way and sometimes they skew another. There’s no way to properly control it.
So the messiness of it was kind of factored in. Anyway, I don’t run these polls for myself or for the traffic (we get a small bump, but it makes no difference because we don’t do enough stuff overall to sustain high traffic), I run these polls for readers and because I think that ultimately, the process and experience is fun. TOP 10 lists and BEST EVER lists are a frequent fixture at most film sites, but those are pretty much the opinion of only 1 person or a select few. Aggregating over 150 people’s opinions is obviously quite different.
So this isn’t an exact science and it shouldn’t be. It’s mostly for fun, and I hope that’s what people have with it. If this were truly definitive, I’d vet everyone’s credentials when voting to see if people *should* be allowed to vote, but that’s not going to happen obviously. If those Charlene Choi fans came back for this vote, I’d be glad to let them back in. But they didn’t, so no MY WIFE IS 18 here (actually, it didn’t even get a single vote).
Long answer, but I hope that kind of explains my rationale and also why I hope people just accept the results as they are. Anyway, the discrepancies sometimes tell us something, like THROWDOWN flying up the list is quite telling, IMHO, as is the drop on something like SPL, which ranked #11 on the AUGHTS vote but only ranked #82 on the BEST FILMS EVER and ended up having 11 films from the AUGHTS jump ahead of it. This is all stuff we can discuss and what’s ultimately the most interesting aspect of running periodic reader votes.
January 1st, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Viktor, your multiple posts and then multiple corrections reminded me of the infamous answering machine scene from Swingers! lol
Re:consistency with past polls. You’re not going to get it. It’s simple math. In past polls we had 20 votes for a single decade. Now we’ve only got 20 votes for a 50+ year period. Sample size is necessarily low. Stuff gets left off lists.
Imagine a situation where e.g. Blood Brothers narrowly edges out 8-Diagram on a few lists for #20. 8-Diagram gets nothing. Followed by a few loyal Charlene fans voting up Twins Effect. Soon you have Twins Effect at #180 > 8-Diagram at #182. Does anyone really believe the Twins Effect is a better film? No, but that’s okay! Twins Effect was pretty good in its own way.
Heck looking back at my own list, I had 36th Chamber #15, inexplicably left off 8-Diagram, and then had Initial-D at #20! Yeah… I know. But what can I say–I had a great time watching 头文字D with my young nephew. It makes my Top 20.
I think in the end we’re all pretty curious to see how the final Top 20 or so rank against each other. CKE vs IA vs ABT, right? Twins vs 8, not so much. Enjoy it for what it is–it’s all good fun.
Thanks for all the hard work, Kozo.
January 1st, 2013 at 7:49 pm
Trivia: if my calculations are correct, there are more post-2000 than 80s films on the list (53 and 47 titles respectively). That’s surprising, but in a good way I think.
I like how eclectic this list is, it covers 6 decades of HK cinema and [almost] all of its genres. Even if the order of titles sometimes seems not right this is a great set of 200 films (okay, 199 actually) every HK Cinema enthusiast should watch.
January 2nd, 2013 at 8:58 am
Happy to see the love for An Autumn’s Tale–might watch it again tonight to celebrate. And, yes, your blurb for Exiled is awesome.
January 3rd, 2013 at 1:18 am
@RayW: He he I had to look up that reference, I am clueless when it comes to Western movies.
@Kozo: Thank you Kozo for the clarification. It is excellent news that the sample size is twice what I thought it was (if you have published that info before, my bad). In that case it is easy to argue that this new ranking is definite and replaces all preceding ones.
In fact, in this case I must say it’s great that we had those three earlier rounds of rankings, since this time around voters had a clearer idea of the “universe” of plausible eligible choices — all they had to do was consult those three earlier lists. It attenuates the bias in favor of the highest-profile/most recent/superstar-studded movies (which are simply easier to recall, irrespective of quality).
So again, thanks for the clarification. And congratulations, I think this must be the best available ranking of its kind now. And in my opinion it also provides the very best entry point to your database of 10+ years of reviews, so this is really a good feature.
January 4th, 2013 at 10:01 pm
Did anybody notice this: “Making a sequel to THE GREATEST FILM EVER sounds like a difficult task, but the INFERNAL AFFAIRS team was up to the task with INFERNAL AFFAIRS II”
GREATEST. FILM. EVER. Does it mean we already have a number one?
January 6th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
“Hey, it’s the King Hu movie that we’re actually allowed to put on this list!”
Uugh, does this mean my votes for RAINING IN THE MOUNTAIN and THE VALIANT ONES got disqualified? IMDB lists them both as HK/Taiwan co-productions, and I believe at least part of VALIANT ONES was actually shot in HK. A little late to recalculate, I know - just curious.
January 6th, 2013 at 8:12 pm
Hi Michael, no those two were not the King Hu films that were disqualified. TOUCH OF ZEN and DRAGON GATE INN were the Taiwan films that got left off. I’m not sure if people were scared off of voting for VALIANT ONES or RAINING IN THE MOUNTAIN by the stated rules. The King Hu movies were more or less FUBAR for this vote. Maybe we can honor them some other way around here.
January 6th, 2013 at 11:29 pm
Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I can’t imagine Hu would be MIA for this vote unless people were confused about his made-in-HK qualifications. I hesitated about putting those two on until I did a little research, and some people who aren’t me have better things to do.
Let’s run the whole vote again! Yaaaayy!
Oh well, he’s dead and doesn’t need the personal validation this poll provides to people like Chow Yun-fat and Stephen Chow. It might sufficiently honor him if others who would have voted for either or both of those films just chimed in for this comment thread. Kinda like an asterisk next to baseball stats (apologies to any non-Americans here who don’t get that).
January 7th, 2013 at 12:51 pm
Although now it occurs to me that neither RAINING IN THE MOUNTAIN nor THE VALIANT ONES have ever been available in good English-subbed versions (I’ve, ahem, developed a source recently, so I have them), and in fact COME DRINK WITH ME is Hu’s only eligible film that is, thanks to Celestial. That might have a lot to do with it, too.
January 8th, 2013 at 3:39 am
Two things:
1) I’d hoped that Exiled would make it to the top 20. I love the hell out of that movie. It’s close, but it *juuuuust* edges out The Mission as far as being my favorite To movie.
2) Why in the world is Red Cliff so high?! I love Woo as much as the next guy (probably more), but wtf?